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The upcoming Spring offensives is going to be absolutely brutal


Sadly, even if Abrams are announced next week, they probably won't be part of any offensive before summer. There's picking and packing, shipping, delivery, training, unit formation, logistics supply setup, concentrating forces, etc. that all has to be done before go time. Still, just the announcement of large quantities of Abrams might impact the war. The Russians could seek negotiations or try to gain as much ground as possible before they arrive, hoping to defend against them. The Ukrainians might delay any half-baked offensives until the Abrams are fully integrated. Edit: for those arguing about delivery times and US logistical might, please see General Mark Hertling's thread on why he thinks **individual training, unit formation, and unit combined arms training will push use back to 8+ months**: [https://twitter.com/MarkHertling/status/1618005965118537732](https://twitter.com/MarkHertling/status/1618005965118537732) I actually think it'll be faster than that, maybe 5 or 6 months.


When us announces weapon delivery it's Amazon Prime shipping, not a Ali Express Great Value see parcel in 6 months


Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if shit was almost in the air when they announce it. The military is slow and stupid hogtied with bureaucracy but when shit *needs* to get done they make it happen.


One of the us greatest export is logistics.


One of those WWII anecdotes where the Germans basically knew they had no hope. They had captured American soldiers who had chocolate bars. If the US could ensure their front line soldiers had chocolate, what else could they have?


A Japanese commander in WW2 had a similar realization when they learned the Americans had ships for making icecream to keep troop morale up in the Pacific. If the Americans could "waste" resources on that the war was already lost.


I remember an interview with one of the solders who had manned the Normandy defenses on D-Day. He said he knew the Axis had lost, when he realised that there were no horses in the invasion fleet. All the transport being landed was motorised.


The German army despite their tanks was mostly horse drawn for their logistics so I can see why they would feel that way. They were facing a truely modernized army for the time


The French were also heavily mechanized and had superior tanks to the Germans. The German tanks were faster, had radios and could communicate with Germany's true advantage: Air power.


People like to focus on the flashier stuff, but the humble Jeep was a *huge* advantage in WWII.


A fellow civ player.


nope, never played that. Think it was a BBC Documentary around the 75th Anniversary.


American here. You wouldn't send the Enterprise-D into battle without its string quartet, right? The same principle applies here. Ice cream is the key to the whole operation.


What would you do for a Klondike bar?


Ask not what a Klondike bar would do for you...


I would recommend that everyone interested in the subject read about how US logistics went from awful in 1942 to amazing in 1945. The overall improvement was a huge part of how the Allies won the war, and the details amaze me. One of my favorite anecdotes was Eisenhower arguing with a logistics officer while attempting to get reinforcements to the bogged down combat in Tunis, they had hundreds of "half-tracks" (armored troop transports) sitting waiting for trains to carry them. So they have trucks, sitting waiting for trains to deliver them to the front lines. The argument for the officer was that the drive would deplete 25% of the life of the tracks. Those kind of disasters are everywhere at the beginning of the war.


Not winter gear


So much gets tied up in waiting to get approval, but once approval is given, things move fast. The whole hurry up and wait process.


True. A veritable shitload of US military power was on the ground in Qatar like half a minute after Saddam punched into Kuwait


They send them on ships. They’re not flying tanks. You can fit 1 in a c-17


Don’t forget to they have stock in Europe already


When the US announces weapon delivery to Ukraine, that shit's already in country lol Better than Prime


There is *nothing* the US military is better at than moving thousands of tons of cargo around the world at a moment's notice. If we could supply West Berlin with 4,000 Tons of supplies a day by air alone in 1949, I'm pretty sure that a deadline as obvious as "spring thaw" will be no problem with a couple months notice.


Problem isn't getting the tanks there, it's getting the personnel trained to operate it and support it.


I would be completely unsurprised to learn the Ukrainians have already been training on Abrams for months. That was the case with Leopards and HIMARS


Definitely will be a morale hit to russians. Will be an even bigger one the first time they see a group of abrams rolling around blasting at them. Likely if any survivors they go back and tell squad that Americans are here and they likely tell other people and so on, and they face even larger desertion than they already have. Really for any Russian in the field it’s death or surrender. No other option exists.


I dont think you understand how efficient the US military supply chain is. I was supply in the Marine Corps and we could easily have a few dozen tanks delivered overseas in 72 hours. The actual shipping and delivery isn't the issue, getting approval and training are the longest part, but as soon as the US gives the ok they can be shipped within a week. Also, I can guarantee that the tanks will be en route or already in Poland before the US announces anything. OPSEC and all that.


I'm sure we can get them a lot of tanks fairly quickly. I think the question is how to get the Ukrainians trained on both their use and their maintenance. Also, they have a much different logistical chain... I hope that is being setup as well.


I'm sure there's a lot of retired logistics and maintenance officers that wouldn't mind a nice contractor gig in Poland training and setting up supply chain hubs and maintenance centers.


I believe it would be very naief to believe that the announcement would only be the beginning. It is probably the last step in the supply chain. Make Russians believe they have still some time and that training and supply still needs to start…


If you look at the HIMARS delivery timeline as an example, the US announced they were being sent on May 31st. 3 1/2 weeks later they were already being reported as being used in operation. It's not surprising they got there that quick, but training and integrating in that time is. So I'd agree that a lot of that planning and training happens well before the shipment is being loaded onto transports. Poland has been training with abrams since July. And US has been training Ukrainian troops in Poland at the same time. I'm sure they've rotated a tank battalion worth of Ukrainian troops into that program. Hell, they announced Ukraine started training on leopard 2s last week.


The west has been training Ukraine guys for like 10 months now. I'd be shocked if a handful here and there weren't shown what's up with things they might get or buy after. I don't remember much of a learning period with HiMars just here they are and there things go boom, not sure at all if that means shit, just you'd assume some person didn't bring up training them on Abrams, Leos, fancy eu jets and F16s.


Former Army logistician. People vastly underestimate how good the US military is at moving stuff. I'm a little biased, but I'd argue it's the single greatest strength that sets the US military apart from others. If the military wants it done, anything can be moved anywhere in 72 hours or less.


Good thought. There's a reason why this stuff is announced. Could save a lot of lives.


Pretty sure there is a significant number of abrams stashed in Europe chilling in storage for the next world war. Bet they are a mere day away from ukraine.


There’s multiple overseas prepositioned war stocks including munitions. The US government spent billions building the stocks and maintaining them for the past 50 years.


Turns out when you prepare for war with the Russians for 80 years, you are pretty good at waging war on the Russians, even by proxy


Theres a good chance we've been training them on the platform for months honestly. Pretty sure we've trained a few of their pilots for F16s as well, just in case.


> Pretty sure we've trained a few of their pilots for F16s as well, just in case. Considering that your Congress gave money to train Ukrainean pilots summer 2022, I'm quite sure there are more than few who is under training right now. I have no idea how many pilots can be trained for 100 million, but I hope its not few. https://www.defensenews.com/congress/2022/07/15/house-authorizes-training-for-ukrainian-pilots-to-use-us-aircraft/


At least one deff


Abrams will likely be half, then half lepords and challengers. Impressive spear head to break through. With all the APCs and armour they have been given to back it up. Would love to see a movement like the US did in 2003 in Iraq straight through to the coast and cut off 1000's


All true. One minor wrinkle to today’s news is that a complete “set-up” for using M1 Abrams was due to begin arriving in Poland, starting this very year. Parts could even already be on a ship crossing the Atlantic, maybe. If not, already pointed towards ports in the USA, perhaps.


https://www.globaldefensecorp.com/2022/08/11/poland-gets-first-us-made-m1-abrams-sepv3-main-battle-tanks/ https://www.globaldefensecorp.com/2022/08/27/polish-army-started-training-on-m1-abrams-tanks/ Yep, the supply train was already going to be in Poland.


There are a bunch of Abrams in Poland already. But I think those are the fully kitted US operated M1A2 SEPs with our current gen EW gear which I don't think we even share with our allies. Unless I'm wrong and they are already stripped down versions, they'll probably have to pull them from stocks.


Even without the EW the US is pretty unwilling to send depleted uranium Abrams tanks so they'd probably never get a stripped down US issue over a purpose built export tank


Need to see a video with an m1 crashing down the first kerck bridge Pillar...




Smite. Compared to rhe T55 and 60's this is would be like the coming archangels. They would give Ukraine the ability to really hit back and hit back hard.


Sound the golden trumpets!!


Your in a T60 and T55's mostly, then your faced by on coming Abrams taking tanks into before you can see it. Your barely trained watching thr first line of tanks become pillers of smoke, the attackers barely pausing to shoot and carrying on forward on mass in formation. Your doomed.


Considering the relative lack of Ruzzian tanks these days, my thinking was that the Abrams would make great trench fillers, just running up and down those nasty eyesore trenches the Ruzzians have built. Keeps things nice and neat for the farmers...👍


The Americans did that in Iraq during Desert Storm. Just buried them alive in their trenches. It's mentioned here: https://youtu.be/RSqKx3FG0Lw or https://youtu.be/i_O5bIsszGw Can't remember which video. This guy's whole series on Desert Storm is great.


To be fair those tanks had dozer blades on them and they just buried the Iraqis alive in their trenches. It’s in poor taste to call it funny but we did at the time. Youth and all, lol.


My Grandad went in on D-Day. Just off the beach was an orchard and he was resting up when a German sniper started shooting at a group of US tankers by a Sherman. They took extreme umbrage at this and once they’d sussed out which hedgerow he was hiding in they motored over and span the tank over his ditch. Once happy they came back got out and carried on smoking…😁


Always glad to see the operations room. Such a fantastic channel. Be sure to check out their sister channel the Intel report!


How well does an Abrams M1 do against long range artillery, airstrikes, and suicide drones? I'm not against the idea, I'm just genuinely curious.


Honestly. Long as you operate as your meant to it will be fine. You operate with Bradley, intergated AA support, arty teams that support etc, himars and others. And Intel qnd others who support your tanks behind the lines. Theirs also the fact a Bradley and others have built in GPS Systems that can deploy and integrate to feed info to the long range guns. It's a shared buff system.


True. We all know what happens to unsupported armor


The Russians sure how showed us time and again if anyone doubted it.


Oh they are going to loose tanks. Thats out of the question. The fact of the matter is, it is much better going up against a T72 in an M1 than in another T72.


It does well against all those things, as it's usually a freaking tank. But, the Achilles heel of the Abrams is the turbine engine. It'll run on anything, but it takes a LOT of fuel to keep one running, and you need supply lines for that. The US has the logistical support to field them, but it'd take a lot for another country to do the same. There's a reason we make a shit ton of them, but they don't really sell all that well to other countries.




The abrams is specifically designed to violate T-72s/Russian anus


Abrams aren't *that* durable. A direct hit from a T-72 could very well could penetrate the front armor and the older A1 variants are extremely vulnerable to modern tandem heat rounds. I hope they send them, but maybe dial back the expectations for a 40 year old tank.


Yeah,also RPG 7 and older anti tank systems are just tickling the Hull.


That's a fact. Not the M1 in this case, but in the Afghanistan war, one Danish Leo-2 was thought to have been hit by upwards of 40 older RPGs/recoilless rounds during one operation. They had to repaint it.


But from what I recall from Twitter in March of last year, tanks are obsolete, so 🤔


Russia has already claimed to have taken out a M1 ( which Ukraine doesn't have yet) with an RPG-8. Lies are bad enough but these are stupid lies.


Look East on the third day, then ride on to victory!


You know theirs someone crazy ernough to dress rhe part and be waving a sword on the offensive.


Find a Polish volunteer, put them in full Hussar kit. Might as well go all out.


Saint javelin worshipping archAbrams


It’s the mechanized equivalent of prime Mike Tyson fighting a fourth grader.


St. Abrams.


Thou mighty Smiter!


Democracy is non-negotiable


Time and again the Ukrainians have figured out the logistics issues and mastered the learning curve. Something about your own land being invaded and your people being tortured, raped and killed. Give'em the tanks; they'll give Russia hell!


Yes, I can’t wait for the site of American M1’s rolling around outside Kyiv like a boss, I’d think Russia will go berserk, their worst case scenario coming true and they did it to themselves. 🇺🇦


They'll be especially potent considering the Abrams were designed for fighting Russian vehicles, in fact that's basically what almost all American gear was built for for nearly the last century. Hence why whatever we've sent over has been so effective


I was just laughing about that. The Abrams are designed to kill Soviet Tanks. Fucking fantastic.


Its not like the Abrams is even needed for that anymore, Javelins and NLAWs are doing that job just fine and for much cheaper. The tanks are more needed to steamroll through Russian frontlines, bum rush the artillery and command posts in the back, and push them all back out of the country.


> The tanks are more needed to steamroll through Russian frontlines, bum rush the artillery and command posts in the back, and push them all back out of the country. Sure send the Abrams but honestly the Bradley IFVs are fully capable of filling that role.


Don't Bradley's and Abrams usually roll together?


In US Military doctrine yes but they're _also_ supposed to have CAS so the situation in Ukraine is different.


What's CAS?


Close Air Support.


Javelins and NLAWS are more defensive in nature, Abrams destroy while going forward... Quickly


Javelins and NLAWs are amazing and still would be part of the story going forwards, but they're better suited to defensive use than as part of a big offensive push. I don't know how good Russian defenses are going to be, but they'll probably be at least a bit more organized than the Russian offensives were, so not nearly as easy for Ukraine's small anti-tank infantry teams to hide and set up attacks. The highly mobile firepower and solid protection that a modern MBT can provide should be a huge help when pushing through those Russian lines, including any tanks or other armored vehicles that they've got setup to defend.


Throw in a few F 16s, that will them nightmares!


"Necessity is the mother of invention"


It's time for the Abrams to fulfill it's purpose. They're gonna go live their best lives now in Ukraine, helping defend a budding democracy, and steamrolling Russian invaders.


[Abrams finally able to fight Russians](https://media.tenor.com/zjuoU4ddJ-4AAAAC/time-has-come-master-oogway.gif)


This is true of the entire NATO arsenal. This is what it was conceived, designed, procured and fielded for.


A10s when that convoy stretched for miles last year: "just let me bang bro."


Just let him bang bro 😢


Always love a little MMA spillage in this sub


Turbine spin up noises intensify.


It’s time my son *pats tank*




Peskov just poured himself a triple instead of the usual after-work double, knowing he will have to huff and puff a whole bunch more all over again tomorrow. So much huffing and puffing, wears a man out.


Russians don't open the bottle without finishing it.


The double and triple refers to how many bottles opened


If you need to create the support system for them, you may as well go all in.


With the way the engine packs are designed most of the real hard maintenance can still be done in the US or Poland.


Nah, we’re going all in on a new support system


Swapping engines in the field and shipping them off IS how it's done. They're designed for that.


There is also a big support infrastructure in the EU. If not in Poland they will have it in Germany.


With anti drone/grenade racks?


With hookers and booze. Got to keep the moral up.


Low morals keep morale high. :D


I never understood that whole engine argument, just give Ukraine extra engines and as soon as they see something going wrong with the original one [they replace the engine](https://youtu.be/OX8TZjQvAvw) and ship the old one to lets say Poland where the US can open a repair facility with its Polish partners.(who would also benefit from learning since they use the tanks too now too)


Engine is only one part. Gas turbines are generally pretty reliable… not many moving parts. Tanks also have the transmissions, turret gear, various optics and electronics. All that stuff needs spare parts and repair technicians. If US is going to transfer Abrams, they are going to have to set up a huge logistics chain, repair facilities, and train a lot of Poles and Ukrainians. The US can do this, but it’s not going to happen overnight. But at least it will shut the appeaseniks up for a week or so, until they find another excuse to appease Russia.


Contractor labor is also available. Companies hire ex-US mechanics to service the vehicles. Get can probably train Polish and Ukrainian mechanics.


It’s how most Arab militaries survive. Maintenance techs aren’t viewed well in many of their cultures


I don't think the U.S. would have trouble fielding the logistics and maintenance for hard repairs in central Europe. In the field is another matter, but Ukraine has proven capable with everything they've been sent so far. I'd like to see a couple hundred. Bring them in from Poland and let them slowly roll up the entire western theater while Germany figures out how many Leopards they need to send to save face. We have over 4,000 of these tanks and they were built for exactly this.


The US could send a 100 a month for a year if they really want to go all in.


The US could send 100 a month for more than 3 years with existing stocks.


And where would that leave our stock of MBTs?


The equipment I mentioned was the war reserves at Sierra Army Depot. The US would still have ~2,500 tanks in Regular Army and National Guard Service, and these would be of uniformly higher quality (M1A2 or newer) than the equipment sent from Sierra (mostly M1A1s made from 1986-1989).


We go all-in on AbramsX. It's time to clear out our closets for the new fashions.


I don't think the issue will ever be, "can Ukraine handle things in the field." Nor will it be, "can America provide enough technical support." It's more that shipping stuff across the border for repairs is a logistical strain. We've already seen that Ukraine's artillery use is constrained by the need to schlep units all the way back to Poland for refit. Even if the transport distance to and from just adds an extra week to downtime... multiply that across an entire deployed base and it piles up. I'm not saying that makes Abrams (or any other particular weapon) prohibitive, just that it's a big factor.


Logistics is the sticking point. Even if the US sets up a repair facility in Poland and provides a supply of parts, at the tip of the line it comes down to the Ukrainians. Once logistics cross the border into Ukraine, they’ll have to manage supplies for 4 completely different tanks; T’s, Leopards, Challengers, and Abrams. Five if French sent LeClercs as they’ve been hitting. US uses just one tank (Abrams) in order to keep logistics simple. TBH, I’m skeptical that Ukraine can manage to keep logistics straight for 4 models.


If they limit certain models to certain fronts, then the logistics problems is reduced. Say all Challengers go to Lyman and only Lyman. Better than sending 14 Challengers to 14 different regiments - that'd be a nightmare.


How long does it take to build a Burger King?


That is a requirement in the maintenance tail for these, yes.


No need to build one. They come preassembled. In Afghanistan they literally shipped them over in a C-5 Galaxy.


I'm literally envisioning pre-packed Burger Kings being air dropped out of the back of a cargo plane, softly landing on the ground, and automatically deploying into a fully staffed, fully operational restaurant like something out of Command and Conquer.


WELCOME TO UNCLE SAM'S! Complete with giant stars and stripes top hat and wagging spring powered pointer finger.


Unable to comply, building in progress


It’s not all that far off https://i.imgur.com/OxSbofm.jpg


C-17, they don’t need to use a C-5.


Hopefully there is still a naval vessel with the bays to support these and they can roll it up to a convenient port like Gdansk. I suspect all the USMC support has already been stripped out though. And they just put these on the Northern border and transfer all those tanks to the South and West. Of course, some US politicians have stated if the US makes the statement, Germany uses it as cover, then US never follows through, everyone would be happy.


abrams can shipped by air via c17's .


Yup, a C-17 can carry 1 Abrams with its support equipment.


The USA has 220 operational c17's , canada has 5, australia has them too. So do alot of other nato countries.


US has a couple hundred Abrams already in Germany…part of permanent NATO support. I do not know if those would be the ones given to Ukraine… if the latest model, probably not.


The US donation would almost certainly come out of the retired USMC tanks. US Army apparently took some of the best, but there are about 200 left in very good condition. The others not in use have been in storage since the 90 and are from obsolete generations that have some parts no longer supported. Apparently all the rubber in them is dry-rotted and needs to be replaced.


Pretty sure the 34-some odd ships of the Maritime Prepositioning Fleet could handle that easily. I've been watching them roll in and out of the repair yards here in Boston after doing a handful of Georgia-Pakistan runs during the GWoT. Some are grey, some are black and white, but I call them floating shoeboxes to my coworkers who share my vantage point in Boston.


US has a full sea lift command, and USMC landing ships. They definitely an be delivered by sea, with spares, ammo and the full works.


Here’s to hoping a <> is in the 200 range. Combined with the aircraft that the type is already decided just not released, should be an interesting spring/summer.


LOL, this shit is hilarious. Russians already ill-equipped are about to get fucked up even more by American military hardware WITHOUT Americans in them. Fucking A, Russia is pathetic.


I honestly think a lot of this is kept intentionally confusing and chaotic just to fuck with Russia. How can they possibly plan for any of this? So Ukraine might get a bunch of Leopards tomorrow, or maybe a month from now, or maybe it will be Abrams or maybe not.


It's all confusion until one day Ukrainians in F-16's give the Russians a masterclass on NATO air supremacy doctrines that they've picked up along the way.


Would love to see an insane clear-up where ground forces take out all the anti-air at the start and then the nice safe little ground war russia thought they were fighting is over.




Imagine all these concripts with second...tenth-hand weapons facing leclercs, abrams, leos and challengers.. rest in piss.


Putin just shit his pants again.


*Cue the scene of putin raging at his generals in a bunker from the movie Downfall after being informed previously that the west wouldn't send tanks LMAO


Instead of fegelein it’s prigozin lol


I always like going on RT.com after these big events. It's hilarious to see the lack of coverage, combined with an increased coverage of "Here are all the problems that people in the US face, which is important on the main Russian news website..." Like c'mon guys, at least have russian news on your russian news propaganda website!


america fuck yeah if this is true


Please let this be true. I get that the Abrams is a logistical and maintenance nightmare but Ukraine has demonstrated that they can handle it and these tanks are orders of magnitude more effective than anything Russia can field. Every time Abrams tanks have gone up against T series tanks it's been a slaughter for the Russian designs.


Iraq has Abrams. Ukraine will do just fine with them.


Non-ironically, thanks Scholz!


Yea, didnt expect me to think this one day.




My beloved Abrams being used for their intended role of buttfucking the Russians? Yes please.


lets do it right if we're going to do it at all


The complex logistics of servicing Abram tanks appears to be simpler than dealing with Scholz.


I have my questions regarding maintenance but just give them the tanks


Ukraine will find a way. Incredibly resourceful nation.


Another Olaf Scholz masterclass. This man is unstoppable.


If this really happens, I am not sure if I should be angry at him or not. More tanks for ukraine are more tanks for ukraine... but scholz still scholzed around. *confused noises*


~~Sergeant~~ Chancellor ~~Schultz~~ Scholz knows noooothink!


If this results in donating significant number of Leopards AND Abrams, Reddit will shit their pants (with laugh and excitement for summer offensive footage).


German News "der Spiegel" says: "Dem »Wall Street Journal« zufolge ist mit Berlin im Gegenzug vereinbart, eigene Leopard-Panzer weiterzugeben." "According to the Wall Street Journal, an agreement has been reached with Berlin to transfer its own Leopard tanks in return." Edit, it's confirmed. Sadly Paywalled: https://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/krieg-in-der-ukraine-deutschland-schickt-leopard-panzer-a-e2dde871-88d0-4cf5-8aae-482d58fd850f "Germany sends Leopard tanks to Ukraine After months of debate, Chancellor Scholz has agreed to deliver battle tanks to Ukraine. According to SPIEGEL information, at least one company of Leopard 2A6s is involved."


I mean, according to some articles this was literally started by a call between Scholz and Biden on the 17th. So maybe Scholz is really not a "russian asset", but actually just wanted a joint NATO effort to give Ukraine an actually powerful supply of tanks?


Scholz has said again and again that all actions will be closely coordinated with all allied partners and that germany wont do any kneejerk solo actions. Everything around that is media interpretation and hype developed for klicks. Single sentences of half-involved people taken out of context or interpreted to fit a narrative of one or the other side OR sentences by involved people bend enough to fit. Framing is a strong thing and does only get increased by copy&paste headlining on social media. Im tired of it. You could make the same statements about other countries and their non-leopard modern western tanks but nobody does (and rightfully so). Why hasnt france sent their leclerc and only ships 10 wheeled recon "tanks"? Why has GB taken so long commit to sending Challengers when BorisBigJ was such a big supporter? Why doesnt sweden send some stridsvagens? Why doesnt Poland send one of their ~50 different modern western non-leopard tanks? They all have their reasons and they all helped a lot in other areas (see poland and the soviet tanks) but so has germany. We have taken a big hit in the energy topic, we send a huge amount of help and we have taken a large amount of refugees. But still somehow we are the only ones that get CONSTANT flag for the topic of modern tanks.


The redemption ark of this decade lol


American war machine back in action, defense contractors and subcontractors got a raging boner right about now.


If I remember correctly the US has an epic shit ton of these in storage. They probably wouldn’t need to manufacture more for this war or even to maintain a reasonable stockpile. That said, you’re right, that won’t stop the military industrial complex from taking advantage of the situation.


The US military literally requested Congress to stop building tanks but were denied since it would disrupt manufacturing in Ohio. They've got plenty they'd love not to maintain anymore https://www.military.com/daily-news/2014/12/18/congress-again-buys-abrams-tanks-the-army-doesnt-want.html


This war has provided a crystal clear lesson on why you want to retain manufacturing capabilities for important equipment like tanks even when there isn't any immediate need for them.


Yep. Plenty of 15+ year old Abrams tanks chilling in a desert in the western US just waiting to die. I'm glad they'll get some good use again.


Defense contractors make all their money on maintenance support. $500 for a $2 washer that’s a weird shape. And that’s for the entire lifecycle of the platform. Hell, the army just decommissioned the A-10 and it’s been in service since 1972. 50 fucking years of parts procurement. Contractors are definitely at full mast right now. Source: ex military maintenance technician. Boeing and Lockheed are the worst at stealing our tax money for pretty much nothing.


American Industry baaaaaby lfg


Russian tanks go fuck yourselves


It really feels like that apartment bombing last week turned something in the west. Sucks for psychopathic tyrants, when everything instantly goes on the Internet in 1080p, and war crimes are much less easy to get away with in secret.


It might have been that, but I have a feeling it was just normal dumb politics. For whatever reasons, in politics it can take weeks, months, or even years of talking just to get to the decision that everybody knew was coming at the end of it all. Like everyone knows what the goal is, most people agree that that's what the answer will be, but nothing is happening. Everyone's talking in circles, nobody wants to commit to anything, everyone's pointing fingers at each other, and it feels like it's stuck in some insanely dumb and pointless loop. And then suddenly everything clicks into place and things start happening really quickly. Politics is full of all kinds of dumb things like this that don't make much sense, but just seem to emerge again and again. Humans are weird.


My guess is that the Abrams will be stationed around Kiev and Lviv where they will act as a deterrent against an attack from Belarus. This will free up the T72s and Leopards to drive on Melitopol.


Putin be like, "if Ukraine gets German tanks it will go poorly for Germany and Ukraine." America be like, "hold my mass shootings and watch this."


“With US military logistics, we bring the mass shootings to you in 24 hours or less.”


Nobody will out mass our mass shootings


Abrams tanks and hopefully F-16s right after!


America doing it right, get fucked ruzzia


Do. It.


This would be great. Send them 500 with 500 in reserve.


I just wish for once they’d stop leaning, considering, weighing up and any other euphemism for procrastinating and just send the fucking tanks already. People are dying - the only way to stop this is to push Russia out of the country for good


In the words of Ahnuld. “DO IT. DO IT NAUOGHOWWWW”


Such a rush reminds me January-February 2022, just before the full scale invasion when countries were delivering NLAWs and Stingers to Ukraine. This rush with tanks means only one thing : something bad is going to happen soon.


I like the term “significant number”


I know the logistics of supporting and operating Abrams in the field is immense but goodness even 30 operational and supplied Abrams tanks in the field at the right time is game changing. Russia has nothing that can touch Abrams on the battlefield except for significant air assets.


If germany convniced them to this. good job. if america is doing this to hurt russia. good job. give ukraine everything they need!


I googled and the US had 4,800 of these. I'm hoping for 500-1,000 tanks to Ukraine at least.


They did just retire the USMC M1A1s, I think there's around 200 or so right there tge US could give, not to mention they still produce these things unlike a lot of the stuff we've given.


Ok Germany, how about those Leopard 2s? Let's make it a party.


I hope this will happen, I really do.


The russian conscripts aren't as enthusiastic I assume...